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Commissioner Elvig asked why the City would seal off pipes if the project increases stormwater . and there is another 60 acres to the north that need to be drained. Development Manager Lazan stated he is not suggesting filling any pipes. He explained some pipe had to be filled that were clearly not to be used any more and were in the way of projects. He stated the City needs to determine the size of pipe needed before taking out a pipe and putting in a new pipe or continuing a 72 -inch pipe that is not necessary. Development Manager Lazan noted that most densification occurs on impervious areas so it does not create additional runoff and is at a one -to -one ratio. He stated it is fair to assume they will handle on -site storm retention and treatment. Then the City can move forward with assumptions in The COR. Commissioner Ramsey stated the pipes are oversized and to continue to build with 72 -inch pipes is not needed and costly. Commissioner Elvig stated he remembers there was a plan to have some ponding in the North Commons area and because the triangle was difficult to develop it was to be ponding. He recalled they ran out of money and did not like the idea of bringing it across so they wanted to create more holding ponds for infiltration. They abandoned the pipe and now that the City is building in that area, it is forced to run another pipe under the road. Chairperson McGlone clarified that the triangle piece was slated for medium to high density. Development Manager Lazan advised that area P41 was not identified as ponding in the 2004 plan but there could have been subsequent changes without updating the plan. He stated he is not looking to upsize the pipe to bring water to the south side of Bunker and thinks it can be downsized since some water can be ponded on the north side. Commissioner Tossey agreed that the triangle was in the Comprehensive Plan for medium to high density and the retaining pond is to the west, just north of Bunker and East of Armstrong. He stated he is against the development of the triangle because he does not think it is the right time. Commissioner Ramsey stated there is a huge benefit in getting something on paper and approved by the LRRWMO because if a master plan can be approved, it would not have to be regurgitated. He stated he does not want to spend more money on oversized pipes if they are not needed. Commissioner Strommen stated she does not think this is a bad idea and there is definite benefit. However, she did not tell the LRRWMO that Ramsey would need to submit a new overall study and it was not required by the LRRWMO. She stated conversations were held at the last few LRRWMO meetings about this project and there was across - the -board appreciation for the predicament Ramsey is in with the old Town Center plan being approved under the Second Generation LRRWMO Plan and the project is now moving through the Third Generation LRRWMO Plan. Commissioner Strommen stated there is language in that Plan for some wiggle room, but she wants it clear since the case report is not clear, what the LRRWMO is and is not requiring because it has not been understood. Housing and Redevelopment Authority / November 20, 2012 Page4of6